| |
 Ïîìîæèòå. Êàê èçìåðèòü åìêîñòü ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà ñ âîäîé |
|
|
|
|
 Jul 5 2016, 23:48
|
Ìåñòíûé
Ãðóïïà: Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 236
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 1-04-06
Ïîëüçîâàòåëü ¹: 15 688
|
Ãðàæäàíå, çàíèìàëñÿ ëè êòî-íèáóäü ïðàêòè÷åñêè äåòñêèìè èçìåðåíèÿìè åìêîñòè ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà, ïîãðóæåííîãî â îáû÷íóþ âîäîïðîâîäíóþ âîäó?. Èìååòñÿ äâå ïëàñòèíû (èç ìåòàëëà) 100x60ìì ñ ðàññòîÿíèåì ìåæäó ïëàñòèíàìè ïîðÿäêà 100ìì. Ìåæäó ïëàñòèíàìè îáû÷íàÿ âîäà èç-ïîä êðàíà. Íó âîò ÷òî-òî âðîäå òàêîãî  Ïî øêîëüíîé ôîðìóëå äëÿ ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà C= ε0*ε*S/d åìêîñòü äîëæíà áûòü îêîëî 0.4 0.04 íàíîôàðàä. Áåðåì êîíäîâûé ñîâåòñêèé äèâàéñ äëÿ èçìåðåíèÿ åìêîñòè è ïîëó÷àåì   íó à åñëè áåç äèâàéñà ïîäàâàòü ñòóïåíüêó íàïðÿæåíèÿ íà êîíäåíñàòîð, òî ïîëó÷àåì âîò òàêóþ çàãîãóëèíó  Çàãîãóëèíà âðîäå áû êàê âïîëíå ñîîòâåòñòâóåò ñõåìå  RC-öåïî÷êè ñ ïàðàëëåëüíûì è ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíûì ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿìè. (èçâåñòíîå ñîïðîòèâëåíèå R=5êÎì, R1, R2 è C íåèçâåñòíû è îöåíèâàþòñÿ ïî ïåðåõîäíûì êðèâûì) Îäíàêî åñòü íüþàíñ. Âñÿêèå ïîäãîíêè ïàðàìåòðîâ ñõåìû ïîä íàáëþäàåìûå êðèâûå äàþò çíà÷åíèÿ åìêîñòè íà óðîâíå ìèëëèôàðàä. ×òî íèêàê íå ïîõîæå íè íà øêîëüíóþ ôîðìóëó, íè íà çíà÷åíèå åìêîñòè, èçìåðåííîå äèâàéñîì. È ÷òî äåëàòü - íåÿñíî.
Ñîîáùåíèå îòðåäàêòèðîâàë evgen2 - Jul 6 2016, 18:03
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Îòâåòîâ
|
|
Jul 6 2016, 07:48
|
Ìåñòíûé
Ãðóïïà: Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 236
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 1-04-06
Ïîëüçîâàòåëü ¹: 15 688
|
Öèòàòà(Ìåäæèêèâèñ @ Jul 6 2016, 07:06)  Ýòî ïðîöåññû â äâîéíîì ýëåêòðè÷åñêîì ñëîå íà ãðàíèöå ìåòàëë-ýëåêòðîëèò. Òî åñòü, Âû ìåðÿåòå ýëåêòðîõèìè÷åñêèå ïðîöåññû, íàïîäîáèå çàðÿäà-ðàçðÿäà àêêóìóëÿòîðà.
À çà÷åì Âàì òàêàÿ ñòðàííàÿ øóòêà? Ìåæäó ýëåêòðîäàìè - ïî÷âà, ïåñîê, ãðóíò, òîðô èëè êàêîå-íèáóäü ãîâíî. íóæíî èçìåðÿòü âëàæíîñòü è íàëè÷èå ãðóíòîâîé âîäû. Ïî èäåå âëàæíîñòü - ýòî ñêîëüêî âîäû ìåæäó ýëåêòðîäàìè, ò.å. åìêîñòü êîíäåíñàòîðà ñ äèýëåêòðèêîì âíóòðè. Íàëè÷èå âîäû îïðåäåëÿåì ïî ñîïðîòèâëåíèþ. Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 6 2016, 10:14) êàê ïðàâèëüíî çàìåòèë ðÿä òîâàðèùåé, ó âàñ íå êîíäåíñàòîð, à äîñòàòî÷íî ñëîæíàÿ ýëåêòðîõèìè÷åñêàÿ ñèñòåìà, ïðè÷åì î÷åíü î÷åíü íåëèíåéíàÿ ïî òîêó è íàïðÿæåíèþ, ãîâîðÿ ïðîñòûìè ñëîâàìè íåîìè÷åñêàÿ. Íà÷íèòå ñ äèñòèëëèðîâàííîé âîäû, ïîñòåïåííî ðàçáàâëÿÿ âîäîïðîâîäíîé, è îáðàùàéòå âíèìàíèå íà ïîâåäåíèå ïðè ðàçíûõ íàïðÿæåíèÿõ. Íàóêà ýòîãî âñåãî õîðîøî îïèñàíà â çàìå÷àòåëüíîé êíèæêå Ìàíóýëÿ Êîðäîíû "Ìîäóëÿöèîííàÿ ñïåêòðîñêîïèÿ", òàì 90% êîíòåíòà ïðî ñèñòåìû ïðîâîäíèê/ýëåêòðîëèò. Îäíî íåïîíÿòíî - ïî÷åìó ñëîæíàÿ ñèñòåìà äîñòàòî÷íî õîðîøî ìîäåëèðóåòñÿ ïðîñòîé ñõåìîé, â êîòîðîé ñìóùàåò òîëüêî âûñîêîå çíà÷åíèå åìêîñòè?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 6 2016, 21:25
|
Çíàþùèé
Ãðóïïà: Ñâîé
Ñîîáùåíèé: 708
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 8-05-11
Èç: ×ã
Ïîëüçîâàòåëü ¹: 64 861
|
Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 11:48) Ìåæäó ýëåêòðîäàìè - ïî÷âà, ïåñîê, ãðóíò, òîðô èëè êàêîå-íèáóäü ãîâíî.
íóæíî èçìåðÿòü âëàæíîñòü è íàëè÷èå ãðóíòîâîé âîäû. Ïî èäåå âëàæíîñòü - ýòî ñêîëüêî âîäû ìåæäó ýëåêòðîäàìè, ò.å. åìêîñòü êîíäåíñàòîðà ñ äèýëåêòðèêîì âíóòðè. Íàëè÷èå âîäû îïðåäåëÿåì ïî ñîïðîòèâëåíèþ. èçìåðèòü âëàæíîñòü ïî÷âû èëè òîãî, ÷òî âû ïåðå÷èñëèëè â íà÷àëå, ñ áîëåå -ìåíåå ïðèåìëåìîé òî÷íîñòü ìîæíî òîëüêî îäíèì ñïîñîáîì - âçâåñèòü ïðîáó, ïðîêàëèòü, ñíîâà âçâåñèòü è ïîñ÷èòàòü âëàæíîñòü. Âñå ýëåêòðîõèìè÷åñêèå èçìåðåíèÿ äàþò â ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå ïîðÿäîê, â ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå. Ïðèìåíÿåìûå âî âñÿêèõ òàì ñõ ïðèáîðàõ ñåíñîðû (îáû÷íî ýòî öåíòðàëüíûé ýëåêòðîä, îêðóæåííûé ïÿòêîì- äþæèíîé â êîëüöåâîì ïîðÿäêå) äàþò ëèøü ñèãíàë "ñóõî - âëàæíî". Äëÿ êîëè÷åñòâåííîãî ïîëèâà èñïîëüçóåòñÿ äðóãàÿ òåõíèêà, òèïà miniclick, ïî èìèòàöèè êðóãîâîðîòà âëàãè. Òàê ÷òî (ñóãóáî èìõî) ëèøü âðåìÿ çðÿ ïîòåðÿåòå.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 6 2016, 21:49
|
Ìåñòíûé
Ãðóïïà: Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 236
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 1-04-06
Ïîëüçîâàòåëü ¹: 15 688
|
Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 7 2016, 00:25) èçìåðèòü âëàæíîñòü ïî÷âû èëè òîãî, ÷òî âû ïåðå÷èñëèëè â íà÷àëå, ñ áîëåå -ìåíåå ïðèåìëåìîé òî÷íîñòü ìîæíî òîëüêî îäíèì ñïîñîáîì - âçâåñèòü ïðîáó, ïðîêàëèòü, ñíîâà âçâåñèòü è ïîñ÷èòàòü âëàæíîñòü. Âñå ýëåêòðîõèìè÷åñêèå èçìåðåíèÿ äàþò â ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå ïîðÿäîê, â ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå. Ïðèìåíÿåìûå âî âñÿêèõ òàì ñõ ïðèáîðàõ ñåíñîðû (îáû÷íî ýòî öåíòðàëüíûé ýëåêòðîä, îêðóæåííûé ïÿòêîì- äþæèíîé â êîëüöåâîì ïîðÿäêå) äàþò ëèøü ñèãíàë "ñóõî - âëàæíî". Äëÿ êîëè÷åñòâåííîãî ïîëèâà èñïîëüçóåòñÿ äðóãàÿ òåõíèêà, òèïà miniclick, ïî èìèòàöèè êðóãîâîðîòà âëàãè. Òàê ÷òî (ñóãóáî èìõî) ëèøü âðåìÿ çðÿ ïîòåðÿåòå. Âñ¸ åùå õóæå. Åñëè ïðîêàëèòü òîðô, îí çàãîðèòñÿ, åñëè ïðîêàëèòü ÷òî-òî ñ îðãàíèêîé, èñïàðèòñÿ íå òîëüêî âîäà, íî è ÷àñòü îðãàíèêè ïåðåéäåò â ãàçîîáðàçíîå ñîñòîÿíèå. Äëÿ íàøèõ öåëåé òî÷íàÿ îöåíêà íå òðåáóåòñÿ. Ñåíñîðû èç òåõ, êîòîðûå ìîæíî ïîïðîáîâàòü áåç áîëüøîãî óùåðáà áþäæåòó - https://youtu.be/apq1t6x4xyY òàì æå âèäíî êà÷åñòâî ðàáîòû (íèêàêîå).
Ñîîáùåíèå îòðåäàêòèðîâàë evgen2 - Jul 6 2016, 21:50
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ñîîáùåíèé â ýòîé òåìå
 evgen2 Ïîìîæèòå. Êàê èçìåðèòü åìêîñòü ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà ñ âîäîé Jul 5 2016, 23:48  MegaVolt Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 10:43) Ìåæäó ... Jul 6 2016, 07:48 Àëåêñàíäð1 Ó êîíäåíñàòîðà ìåæäó ïëàñòèíàìè äîëæåí áûòü äèýëåê... Jul 6 2016, 05:06 mcheb Óâåëè÷üòå âðåìÿ èìïóëüñà ðàç â 10 è ëó÷øå ñäåëàòü ... Jul 6 2016, 06:04 evgen2 Öèòàòà(mcheb @ Jul 6 2016, 09:04) Óâåëè÷ü... Jul 6 2016, 07:56 MegaVolt Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 10:56) òàê õî... Jul 6 2016, 07:59 evgen2 Öèòàòà(MegaVolt @ Jul 6 2016, 10:59) Òàê ... Jul 6 2016, 08:08 MegaVolt Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 11:08) Äà íå ... Jul 6 2016, 08:22 evgen2 Öèòàòà(MegaVolt @ Jul 6 2016, 11:22) Áîþñ... Jul 6 2016, 09:02 MegaVolt Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 12:02) Ïðåäïî... Jul 6 2016, 09:54 agregat Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 12:02) Åñëè â... Jul 6 2016, 10:08 evgen2 Öèòàòà(agregat @ Jul 6 2016, 13:08) Äëÿ õ... Jul 6 2016, 10:51 MrYuran Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 6 2016, 10:56) Ðàçíîï... Jul 6 2016, 14:27 _pv Öèòàòà(MrYuran @ Jul 6 2016, 21:27) Íà ñà... Jul 6 2016, 15:31 Onkel êàê ïðàâèëüíî çàìåòèë ðÿä òîâàðèùåé, ó âàñ íå êîíä... Jul 6 2016, 07:14 _pv ÖèòàòàÏî øêîëüíîé ôîðìóëå äëÿ ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîð... Jul 6 2016, 14:17 evgen2 Öèòàòà(_pv @ Jul 6 2016, 17:17) íà ïîðÿäî... Jul 6 2016, 17:16 _pv Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 7 2016, 00:16) åùå ìî... Jul 6 2016, 18:07 evgen2 Öèòàòà(_pv @ Jul 6 2016, 21:07) â îïòè÷åñ... Jul 6 2016, 18:15 РўРёРјСѓСЂ Ð ÑžÐ Â°Ð Ñ Òàê âû ãåîôèçèêó èçîáðåòàåòå.
Ïîñìîòðèòå https://r... Jul 6 2016, 18:15 evgen2 Öèòàòà(РўРёРјСѓСЂ Ð ÑžÐ Â°Ð Ñ @ Jul... Jul 6 2016, 18:37 Onkel íó "ïðîêàëèòü" íå çíà÷èò ãðåòü äî 3 êèëî... Jul 7 2016, 09:18 evgen2 Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 7 2016, 12:18) íó ... Jul 7 2016, 10:43 Ìåäæèêèâèñ Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 7 2016, 14:43) Õî÷åòñ... Jul 10 2016, 08:14 MrYuran Âîò, îòêîïàë.
Êñòàòè, êëàññíàÿ èäåÿ, ïðåîáðàçîâàò... Jul 7 2016, 11:31 rx3apf ß áû ïåðâûì äåëîì ïîïðîáîâàë LC-êîíóð, ãäå åìêîñòü... Jul 7 2016, 18:52 Onkel Öèòàòà(rx3apf @ Jul 7 2016, 22:52) Ìîæíî ... Jul 7 2016, 20:34 evgen2 Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 7 2016, 23:34) öåëàÿ ã... Jul 7 2016, 21:18 GetSmart Èçìåðÿòü, íàâåðíîå, ëó÷øå êàêèì-òî ìíîãîñòàäèéíûì ... Jul 8 2016, 05:31 rudy_b Êîíòðîëèðîâàòü âîäó ïðàâèëüíåå ïî äèýëåêòðè÷åñêîé ... Jul 8 2016, 14:04
1 ÷åë. ÷èòàþò ýòó òåìó (ãîñòåé: 1, ñêðûòûõ ïîëüçîâàòåëåé: 0)
Ïîëüçîâàòåëåé: 0
|
|
|
