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> Ïîìîæèòå. Êàê èçìåðèòü åìêîñòü ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà ñ âîäîé
evgen2
ñîîáùåíèå Jul 5 2016, 23:48
Ñîîáùåíèå #1


Ìåñòíûé
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Ãðàæäàíå, çàíèìàëñÿ ëè êòî-íèáóäü ïðàêòè÷åñêè äåòñêèìè èçìåðåíèÿìè åìêîñòè ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà, ïîãðóæåííîãî â îáû÷íóþ âîäîïðîâîäíóþ âîäó?.

Èìååòñÿ äâå ïëàñòèíû (èç ìåòàëëà) 100x60ìì ñ ðàññòîÿíèåì ìåæäó ïëàñòèíàìè ïîðÿäêà 100ìì. Ìåæäó ïëàñòèíàìè îáû÷íàÿ âîäà èç-ïîä êðàíà.
Íó âîò ÷òî-òî âðîäå òàêîãî


Ïî øêîëüíîé ôîðìóëå äëÿ ïëîñêîãî êîíäåíñàòîðà C= ε0*ε*S/d åìêîñòü äîëæíà áûòü îêîëî 0.4 0.04 íàíîôàðàä.
Áåðåì êîíäîâûé ñîâåòñêèé äèâàéñ äëÿ èçìåðåíèÿ åìêîñòè è ïîëó÷àåì




íó à åñëè áåç äèâàéñà ïîäàâàòü ñòóïåíüêó íàïðÿæåíèÿ íà êîíäåíñàòîð, òî ïîëó÷àåì âîò òàêóþ çàãîãóëèíó



Çàãîãóëèíà âðîäå áû êàê âïîëíå ñîîòâåòñòâóåò ñõåìå

RC-öåïî÷êè ñ ïàðàëëåëüíûì è ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíûì ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿìè. (èçâåñòíîå ñîïðîòèâëåíèå R=5êÎì, R1, R2 è C íåèçâåñòíû è îöåíèâàþòñÿ ïî ïåðåõîäíûì êðèâûì)

Îäíàêî åñòü íüþàíñ. Âñÿêèå ïîäãîíêè ïàðàìåòðîâ ñõåìû ïîä íàáëþäàåìûå êðèâûå äàþò çíà÷åíèÿ åìêîñòè íà óðîâíå ìèëëèôàðàä.
×òî íèêàê íå ïîõîæå íè íà øêîëüíóþ ôîðìóëó, íè íà çíà÷åíèå åìêîñòè, èçìåðåííîå äèâàéñîì.

È ÷òî äåëàòü - íåÿñíî.

Ñîîáùåíèå îòðåäàêòèðîâàë evgen2 - Jul 6 2016, 18:03
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Îòâåòîâ
Onkel
ñîîáùåíèå Jul 7 2016, 09:18
Ñîîáùåíèå #2


Çíàþùèé
****

Ãðóïïà: Ñâîé
Ñîîáùåíèé: 708
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 8-05-11
Èç: ×ã
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íó "ïðîêàëèòü" íå çíà÷èò ãðåòü äî 3 êèëîêåëüâèíîâ. Íî ýòî åäèíñòâåííûé ìåòîä, è îí ðàáîòàåò. Âûðàæóñü ïî äðóãîìó- îòêà÷àòü âîäó.
Âàø ïðèìåð ñåíñîðà - èãðóøêà, îí îáëåçåò ÷åðåç íåäåëþ ðàáîòû. Ñåíñîðû ñ áîëåå-ìåíåå óñòîé÷èâûìè ýëåêòðîäàìè òÿíóò íà äåñÿòêè áàêñîâ, èõ ïîëíî, à ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ êà÷åñòâà- ñåíñîðû ïðàâèëüíî èçìåðÿþò òîê , òóò ê íèì ïðåòåíçèé íåò, à âîò óæå âû÷èñëåíèå âëàæíîñòè - ìîäåëüíîçàâèñèìûé ìåõàíèçì,òóò òî÷íîñòè íèêàêîé.
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evgen2
ñîîáùåíèå Jul 7 2016, 10:43
Ñîîáùåíèå #3


Ìåñòíûé
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Ãðóïïà: Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 236
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 1-04-06
Ïîëüçîâàòåëü ¹: 15 688



Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 7 2016, 12:18) *
íó "ïðîêàëèòü" íå çíà÷èò ãðåòü äî 3 êèëîêåëüâèíîâ. Íî ýòî åäèíñòâåííûé ìåòîä, è îí ðàáîòàåò. Âûðàæóñü ïî äðóãîìó- îòêà÷àòü âîäó.
Âàø ïðèìåð ñåíñîðà - èãðóøêà, îí îáëåçåò ÷åðåç íåäåëþ ðàáîòû.

íó äàâàéòå òàê. Èçìåðåíèå âëàæíîñòè "ïî îïðåäåëåíèþ" - äîðîãî, äîëãî, ñâÿçàíî ñ ðó÷íîé ðàáîòîé è âàðèàíòàìè "òåõíèê Âàñÿ íàïèñàë â áàíî÷êó âìåñòî òîãî, ÷òîá ïåðåòñÿ â íåâåäîìûå åáåíÿ". Õî÷åòñÿ ÷åãî-íèáóäü ïðîñòîãî, äåøåâîãî è íà䏿íîãî, ÷òîáû îíî âûäàâàëî ïîïóãàè, êîòîðûå ìîæíî áûëî áû èíòåðïðåòèðîâàòü êàê èëè ïðîöåíò âëàæíîñòè èëè "òóò âîäà".
Ïîñëåäíåå ìîæíî â âàðèàíòå "óðîâåíü (ãðóíòîâîé) âîäû - xx ñì îò ïîâåðõíîñòè", ãäå õõ - îò 0 äî 100. Âàðèàíò ñ ïîïëàâêîì â òðóáå íå ïðîõîäèò ïîòîìó êàê íå êàæåòñÿ íà䏿íûì - çàðàñò¸ò êàêîé-íèáóäü ðÿñêîé èëè åùå êàêîé-íèáóäü äðÿíüþ.

Öèòàòà(Onkel @ Jul 7 2016, 12:18) *
Ñåíñîðû ñ áîëåå-ìåíåå óñòîé÷èâûìè ýëåêòðîäàìè òÿíóò íà äåñÿòêè áàêñîâ, èõ ïîëíî, à ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ êà÷åñòâà- ñåíñîðû ïðàâèëüíî èçìåðÿþò òîê , òóò ê íèì ïðåòåíçèé íåò, à âîò óæå âû÷èñëåíèå âëàæíîñòè - ìîäåëüíîçàâèñèìûé ìåõàíèçì,òóò òî÷íîñòè íèêàêîé.

À ãäå ìîæíî ïîñìîòðåòü íà õîòÿ áû äàòàøèòû òàêèõ ñåíñîðîâ?

Ñîîáùåíèå îòðåäàêòèðîâàë evgen2 - Jul 7 2016, 10:52
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Ìåäæèêèâèñ
ñîîáùåíèå Jul 10 2016, 08:14
Ñîîáùåíèå #4


Ïðîôåññèîíàë
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Ãðóïïà: Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1 541
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 21-03-12
Èç: ÐÔ
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Öèòàòà(evgen2 @ Jul 7 2016, 14:43) *
Õî÷åòñÿ ÷åãî-íèáóäü ïðîñòîãî, äåøåâîãî è íà䏿íîãî, ÷òîáû îíî âûäàâàëî ïîïóãàè, êîòîðûå ìîæíî áûëî áû èíòåðïðåòèðîâàòü êàê èëè ïðîöåíò âëàæíîñòè èëè "òóò âîäà".
Ïîñëåäíåå ìîæíî â âàðèàíòå "óðîâåíü (ãðóíòîâîé) âîäû - xx ñì îò ïîâåðõíîñòè", ãäå õõ - îò 0 äî 100. Âàðèàíò ñ ïîïëàâêîì â òðóáå íå ïðîõîäèò ïîòîìó êàê íå êàæåòñÿ íà䏿íûì - çàðàñò¸ò êàêîé-íèáóäü ðÿñêîé èëè åùå êàêîé-íèáóäü äðÿíüþ.


Ïðè òàêèõ óñëîâèÿõ, ÿ âèæó òîëüêî ñëåäóþùèé âàðèàíò:
Òîíêîñòåííàÿ, çàãëóøåííàÿ äèýëåêòðè÷åñêàÿ òðóáêà, äëèíîé íà âñþ ãëóáèíó èçìåðåíèÿ, èç íåñìà÷èâàåìîãî ìàòåðèàëà.
Íà âíóòðåííåé ïîâåðõíîñòè òðóáêè - ðÿä êîëüöåâûõ ýëåêòðîäîâ (êàê ìèëèöåéñêàÿ ïàëêà). Ýòè ýëåêòðîäû ÿâëÿþòñÿ ìåðíîé ëèíåéêîé.
Èçìåðÿåòñÿ åìêîñòü ìåæäó íèìè ñêâîçü ñòåíêó. Âîäà ñíàðóæè ïðè ýòîì âûñòóïàåò ÷èñòî êàê ïðîâîäíèê, êàê íàðóæíàÿ îáêëàäêà ïåðåìåííîé ïëîùàäè. ×åì âîäû áîëüøå - òåì áîëüøå áóäåò èçìåðåííàÿ åìêîñòü è ìåíüøå àêòèâíîå ñîïðîòèâëåíèå.
Èçìåðÿåì ìåæäó ïàðàìè ýëåêòðîäîâ, íà÷èíàÿ ñâåðõó. Äîïóñòèì, åìêîñòü íàðàñòàåò - çíà÷èò ñ ãëóáèíîé âëàæíîñòü óâåëè÷èâàåòñÿ.
Êàê òîëüêî åìêîñòü èçìåíÿòüñÿ ïåðåñòàëà - çíà÷èò äîñòèãíóò óðîâåíü ãðóíòîâîé âîäû, 100% æèäêàÿ âîäà.

Âîò êàê-òî òàê.


--------------------
Ïîñòðîèâ àâòîìîáèëè, ÷åëîâå÷åñòâî îñâîáîäèëî ëîøàäåé îò íåîáõîäèìîñòè ðàáîòàòü.
Ïî÷åìó îíî íå îñâîáîäèëî îò òàêîé íåîáõîäèìîñòè ñåáÿ ))
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